I’ve been on LinkedIn for over three years and I’ve been amazed that spam related content has not been a huge issue. Rarely do I see, or maybe its that I haven’t recognized it, this type of activity. Compared to Twitter direct sales messages rarely work.
Today I received a message from a fellow group member that at first I assumed was legitimate. Now I’m not so sure. I’m going to leave the final decision up to you.
First here’s the message I received from Bradley Mitchell which included a note apparently sent to him from Mr. Brad Kenzie. It includes a link to http://www.moresocialleads.com which advertises a social media product called PMA Desk.
The message is pretty straight forward. Since I work with clients helping them with their social media strategies, and having written a blog for the past two years that discusses LinkedIn and social media, I was curious. I clicked on the link to check it out.
This is part of a screenshot to where the link directed me.
After looking at the site I was also curious about the person that sent me the message so I visited his profile as well. That’s when I started to have my suspicions. Here a screen shot of Bradley’s profile.
A couple of things stood out. First the photo doesn’t look like a real profile shot, rather something captured off of iStockphoto or Jupiter images. Second the number of connections caught my eye. Third the lack of web url’s. Fourth the lack of a customized profile url. And then the last part was the lack of information in the rest of the profile.
So I next did a search on Twitter for Bradley Mitchell and PMA Desk. No listings were found. So next I searched Google using the keyword search term “bradley mitchell” and sofcar. Here’s the result.
No listing found. So then I decided to search for the company, Sofcar. Per Bradley’s profile they are based out of Chicago. Here are the results.
There were lots of listings for “sofa” etc. but no listing for a company named Sofcar.
The last search I tried was on LinkedIn for a profile for Brad Kenzi. Here are the results.
Once again no luck in finding such a person listed on LinkedIn.
So once again here is what I’m wondering (but I’ll leave the final determination up to you). Did PMA Desk create a fictitious LinkedIn account, join groups, and then start sending out fake messages to spam people to drive traffic to the PMA Desk?
If so this is a major breach of social media protocol, and advertising ethics in general. At a minimum they are guilty of spam, even if all of the accounts were real. They sent me a sales message without my permission.
At worst they’ve sent me a spam message after going through the trouble to create a false profile in an attempt to generate credibility. In either case they failed. But obviously some people will click on the link thus driving traffic to their site.
If the account is false it also raises questions about some of the claims on their home page.
First are the claims of the product. If they did create a fake account how am I to believe the product claims stated on the site.
Second they have a banner claiming that the product was featured on Fox and Friends. Here’s the screen capture.
If they created a fake profile should I believe this? I decided to do a search on “PMA desk” and Fox and friends. Here are the results for that Google search.
That’s it. Seems like if I had a product or service featured on Fox and Friends you’d see press releases and article touting this success.
The third thing to question is the actual testimonials on the site. If they did create a fake profile how could I believe the validity of these claims. (I have been able to confirm that Mathew Sapaula is a real person)
You’ll have to make your own decision but something doesn’t jive.
Interestingly enough there is a company page on LinkedIn for PMA Desk that lists four employees on LinkedIn. The page claims that there are 87 employees total. A small percentage of employees with LinkedIn accounts for a company that sells a product geared to creating a social media plan.
Here are the screen shots of the four employees profiles.
The first three unfortunately raise the question of whether or not they are real accounts are bogus profiles. The last is possibly the person behind PMA Desk.
Is PMA Desk a real product that can help you with your online social media efforts, I don’t know. I do know that from a credibility perspective there are some glaring questions that have been raised.
Here’s the thing about this social networking world that we are all exploring and participating in. Its easy to create a presence online. It’s easy to build an apparent history and track record. Most people are going to initially take you at your word, or at least believe what’s on the page.
But its also a community that when it feels its been misused or its trust violated that will immediately respond by ignoring, disconnecting, and sharing what its learned with others. Your online brand can takes years to build but be destroyed instantly by actions that cross the community threshold of decency.
Spamming is one of those no-no’s that will tear down your brand. Creating fake accounts to engage in false discussions is another.
Using social media to connect and engage in conversations to drive business is a good thing. It doesn’t matter if it is a corporate account or an individual account, as long as the conversations are legitimate.
What do you think?
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About Sean Nelson
I think if I ever need an online detective it will be you Sean. Breaking out into new roles?
I’d say its bogus….Just like the Twitter people with hundreds of connections and no tweets!!
Best to you my friend!
Ross
Did PMA Desk create a fictitious LinkedIn account, join groups, and then start sending out fake messages to spam people to drive traffic to the PMA Desk?
ABSOLUTELY!!! I would have done the same searches as you Sean. My next search would be finding out who this Carl Doppler fellow is. Probably a stolen identity.
I agree, Ross. Sean has expanded on the concept of forensic accounting into social media.
Sean – great job as usual. You kept it simple, applied common sense and logic to your approach and laid out a pretty solid case of what not to do!
Thanks for sharing!
-Jim
Impressive research, Sean. Thanks for sharing. Can’t go wrong with gut instincts.
Hey Sean,
I agree. Excellent research. Too bad companies need to resort to BS to trying to sell products. Then they wonder why salesmen get bad raps. We, as a community, need to clean up after ourselves or the bad press will continue.
Thank you for your diligence.
To Your Continued Success
Ross,
I periodically get direct pitches and I can live with that. Creating fake profiles to build credibility is not something I’m OK with. My goal is that this post gets passed on and exposes PMA Desk for what they are.
Sean
Mike,
I think Carl is actually a real person, and the person behind the message.
Sean
Thanks Jim. I would love to see this post go viral but its not as sexy as “The Top 5 Mistakes on LinkedIn.
Retweets are a place to start.
Sean
Thanks Bill. The sad part is they don’t have to stoop to this. They can accomplish the same goals by taking the time to build their communities, share value, and start real conversations.
If you get a chance, and you tweet, consider retweeting the post.
Sean
Received this from a reader:
Hi
I attended this webinare and found it very informative. Here is a copy of what they sent me. This should help you too.
Best Wishes,
Daniel Dice
Thank you on your feedback about our last LinkedIN, Facebook and twitter training class. We really value our attendee’s views. Here is the link to the new tool to help generate leads.You can forward this to a few people who you know that may need some help with lead generation of website traffic.
Thank you
Tim Morris
______________________
Search Daniel Dice on LinkedIn and the results are the same as for Bradley Mitchell.
Sean
http://www.socialnetworkperformance.com/
I haven’t gotten that one. LinkedIn has been very clear of spam (although I’m getting tired of students posting homework questions in Answers) and I hope this is an isolated incident.
Very well written Sean.
Apparently Bradley Mitchell is gone with the wind. No such profile, at least based on my quick search.
Oh, and maybe this guy could shed some light: http://tr.im/F6Ex
Sean-
I received this same message (and a couple of similar variations) from multiple people in the last couple of weeks. I deleted them since I DIDN’T know the senders…
Joel,
I’m starting to hear from folks and it does not appear this is the first time PMA Desk is doing this.
If you Tweet I would appreciate it if you would send out a tweet linking to the article.
Sean
Dave,
Bradley Mitchell has indeed vanished. Also checked some of the apparent groups he was in and no such luck.
I would imagine that Carl Doppler knows where he went: http://www.linkedin.com/in/carldoppler
Sean
Could be the same or a similar site. Did you receive any spam from them?
Sean
Michael,
Whenever you receive one of these post it to this discussion. The only way to shut them down is to expose them.
Sean
I got the same message this morning, but from a Paul Carney. I suspect a check into Mr. Carney might produce the same results as your check into Bradley Mitchell. Here’s the text from the message:
“Hi Loraine,
I attended this webinare and found it very informative. Here is a copy of what they sent me. This should help you too.
Best Wishes,
Paul
Hi Paul,
Thank you on your feedback about our last LinkedIN, Facebook and twitter training class. We really value our attendee’s views. Here is the link to the new tool to help generate leads. There is no cost for the tool. Your other question was complicated ? the easy answer is Yes, you can forward this to a few people however please do not blast it to your whole network.
http://socialnetworkingmadeeasy.net/
Thanks,
Brad Kenzie”
This does need to be stopped.
Loraine
I came to your website today because I attended the webinar. I saw this post and just wanted to comment. If it was PMA desk that spammed you that’s wrong. I do know that pma desk is a real company because we use them and also Matthew is a real person who has a radio show here in Chicago. I know this because my father, a financial planner, was on his radio show. Whether he really gave that quote I don’t know but I thought I would let you know that this company and the customer are real. Hopefully it was not them that spammed you because they are helping us with our social media and I hope they don’t spam our clients!
Loraine,
I’m getting more and more feedback from people that have received similar messages.
On the positive side this blog post is now listed as the #3 result when you search “PMA Desk” Spread the word by retweeting this post.
Sean
Alicia,
Thanks for attending todays webinar.
Based on the fictitious account and the profiles listed on the PMA Desk companies page it looks fishy. In the end if its them or an affiliate (if they have those) they are responsible for setting marketing guidelines.
I’m sure they are a real company with a real product. The problem is that they are impacting their credibility by choosing a negative process of marketing.
Sean
This type of thing is really frustrating. It makes the rest of us with legitimate business practices suspect to potential clients. And the really odd thing to me is that some of these folks seem to think it’s ok to ‘fudge’ online – with completely fictitious accounts, testimonials, what have you. The rules of business conduct don’t change just because it’s a virtual environment. Excellent post. Keep them coming!
Wow, I am very impressed by your thorough investigative work! Hopefully, presenting all of this directly to Carl Doppler may stop the unethical practice! Thanks for your effort Sean!
–Victoria Manuel
I agree 100%.
Sean
Victor,
Thanks for the comments and for reading the blog.
Sean
So I responded before (see number 20) and am now really doubting this company. I had never talked to anyone on the phone and after reading this tried three times, twice leaving messages and once I talked to a female (the same person who I had left messages with) saying she would have someone call me right back. Its been days and I have not received a call back. This company has not followed through with the majority of what they promised to and now are unable to reach. I just thought I would leave my feedback. Also, the “president” of PMA desk/MYeReputation is Dean DeLisle. Looking at his linked in he has lots of contacts so I don’t know what to think of him or his company.
Alicia,
I would recommend that you contact Carl Doppler, as he is the one person I can verify and find a LinkedIn profile for.
In addition I would take some time and write out your story and then paste it here. Then go to WordPress.com and create a blog…easy to do. Then post your story there with up to 25 keywords related to PMA Desk and Carl’s name. This will get picked up by search engines. Then Tweet the link to the blog. Over time you’ll get there attention and someone will call you.
Sean
Just heard back from Carl Doppler. He was out of town last week with his family. He was very helpful and answered all my questions. I feel bad that I posted that second post because I know now that they are a real company and I am not worried anymore that they will help our company grow and tackle the social media world
Like I said in my first post, we do know someone that recommends them and the person’s testimonial on there site is real and now we will be recommending them as well. Just wanted to let you and your readers know so you don’t have to have any worries about this company anymore.
Alicia,
Thanks for posting back. I do believe they are a real company, just concerns on the marketing approach. Hopefully I won’t receive anymore emails and have to write another similar post. I prefer posts where I’m helping others use LinkedIn more effectively.
Sean
Sean and Alicia,
Thank you for the comments and research! I have a meeting set for tonight to interview as an operations manager with PMA Desk. They are a new outsourced-company in our area and thanks to your blogs and comments, I will tread very carefully during the interview and get some light as to what this company really is about and what their objectives are, before I consider taking in a job with them. Will post back to you after my meet and greet with PMA Desk tonight.
Dino
I received a similar spam message from “Peter Drainer” back in August 2009 directing me to PMA Desk.
If they are a legitimate company as Alicia suggests, how good can they be if their own sites are not ranked well? I had a hard time finding any information on them unless I was searching for PMA Desk.
Dino,
Good luck. I have not seen any recent activities similar to what I documented. Hopefully it was a blip.
Dino – Do NOT take a job with Carl Doppler. If you do remember this message 3-4 months from now.
Thanks for the comment. I just switched to Thesis and I’m working on a redesign. If you see the design change I’m trying different options.
I’ve shared you article on digg, well written
Thanks. I can use all of the help I can get.
To Whom It May Concern:
I also received the same email pointing me to PMAdesk. I went through the same investigation and was concerned. I spoke with a lady that made promises that someone would call me back. Finally the sales person that I spoke to on 11/11/09 was David Goin (sp?) that signed me up and took my credit card information. He told me that Joe would call me back to set up my account within 48 hours. After two weeks I started calling them. On 11/25/09 was credit card was hit for another $199 for the month of Dec. but I had received no service in Nov. nor was my account set up yet. I called to cancel my contract and Carl Dopper got on the phone. Mr. Dopper was very charming, and sorry that they dropped the ball. He would personally see that things got done if I would give them a second chance and he would refund the Dec. payment and give me one month free.
To make a long story short, it didn't happen. David called back one day and said he was my new PMA that would be handling my account. David also made promises that did not materialize and then disappeared as quickly as the other people that were suppose to be setting me up and doing my marketing. Finally, Pat took over my account and things started to happen but before they did, she disappeared and a Karen called back and was suppose to be assisting Pat. But she asked questions that told me that she had no clue of what had been done in the past. It was then that I felt that Pat too was no longer employed by PMAdesk. I had gone through a PMA for each month that I had been with the company. Then I started getting email calling me a spammer and telling me to FU*% off. My domain name and main email address was put on spammer list so that my emails would not go through. Mr. Doppler now has control of my name on several social media sites like blog.com and wordpress and I am locked out of my own name.
He is located in the Philippines and I always get the message that sorry he has been out of town and just got back. He has companies registered in the USA but operates and funnels money out to the Philippines. None of his employees have a real office. They log onto his WAN to do their work and all of their calls go into a central system and then forwarded to their personal phones. I cannot call this a real company.
When I called to cancel the second time he tried to charm me again into letting him take my money and even lied about David and Pat not being with the company. Then he changed his story and said Pat was an older lady that got cancer and her treatments just didn’t allow her to continue doing the job. He told one lie after another and tried to place the blame on me for my marketing failure. I finally located both David and Pat and needless to say both are doing fine. David has his own social media marketing company on line and Pat is not an older lady and has never had cancer. Carl Doppler claims that he has refunded 73% of what I paid him back to my credit card but once again, it never showed up on my card. I am in the process of trying to collect information and data to file suit against him personally, PMAdesk, Forward Progress, Doppler Internet and any other companies that I can find. If you are a present or past client or employee, I would appreciate any verifiable information that you may wish to share. I already have a file full of written documentation from Doppler and others within his organization. Thank you.
Good luck on finding him. He is a fox, and in the Philippines? I think not. I was a past employee and he makes sure nothing links to him. Look up Doppler Internet and you will see several addresses, the last one is in Merrillville Indiana (which is the address for a UPS store). The best think is to track down Dean Delisle (forwardprogress.net or on facebook dean delisle) He is Carl’s business consultant and friend. If you do find him let people know, people in Hammond and Crown point have some court papers they like to serve.
LINKEDIN is spamming my business email, which I never use for any personal communications. That is admin@domain.com. last week I emailed LINKEDIN to be removed, although they should have not emailed me in the first place. This is their automatic response:
==================================================
LinkedIn Customer Support Message
Subject: Invitation to connect on LinkedIn: REMOVE!
LinkedIn has received your question. A service professional will review and respond to your inquiry as quickly as possible. We apologize for any delay in responding to your inquiry as we are experiencing high inbound volume at this time. Thank you for your patience!
=================================================
There was no response to my request nor response to this ticket. Instead, days later, LINKEDIN send me a reminder to not forget that Umesh sent me an invitation and that LINKEDIN is still waiting for me to sign up!
===========================================================
This is a reminder that on January 28, Umesh China sent you an invitation to become part of his or her professional network at LinkedIn.
Follow this link to accept Umesh China’s invitation.
(I removed the link)
Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.
===========================================================
LINKEDIN urges me to sign up! I don’t want to! This is my business email and LINKEDIN disrespected my request to stop spamming my business email.
And here’s another message received to my other, personal email address:
========================================================
LinkedIn
This is a reminder that on January 22, ram sankar sent you an invitation to become part of his or her professional network at LinkedIn.
Follow this link to accept ram sankar’s invitation.
https://…link removed by me
Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.
On January 22, ram sankar wrote:
> To: [name@isp.net]
> From: ram sankar [ramsankar2007@gmail.com]
> Subject: ram sankar wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn
> I’d like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
>
> – ram sankar
The only way to get access to ram sankar’s professional network on LinkedIn is through the following link:
https://link removed by me
You can remove yourself from ram sankar’s network at any time.
========================================================
They are telling me that the only way to stop this spamming is to sign up (click the potentially unsafe link) to their LINKEDIN network! That is against laws, since there is no unsubscribe link in the message. I never signed up to any LINKEDIN! Now they are spamming all my email addresses with some ridiculous personal issues of some guy that I don;t know and don’t care to know!
There’s more, the email address that I “CC” to my remove request to now got spammed by the same message days later! So instead of removing my business email address, they also now are spamming my other email address!
In addition to that LINKEDIN sold me to other spammers at BADOO. Because soon after I sent an unsubscribe request to LINKEDIN, BADOO spammed my same business email address in a similar fashion.
=======================================================
Gordon Shane left a message for you…
=======================================================
and when I clicked on BADOO unsubscribe link (yes they do have one in their email message unlike LINKEDIN) it said I can either check their network, or, (and they DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT!!) “block all further email messages”.
I am not interested in any of LINKEDIN or any other internet ventures. If I receive one more message from LINKEDIN to my business email I will transfer this matter to an attorney who deals with spammers.
AU,
Just to clarify …you do not have a LinkedIn account but keep getting invite messages sent by LinkedIn on behalf of members and you want LinkedIn to quit spamming you.
Based on this technically LinkedIn is not spamming you. The issue is that members are loading your email up into their contacts list and then sending out the invitation. (For example, if you receive an email from a company that used Constant Contact as their email service, Constant Contact is only the tool being used. The sender is who’s causing you to receive an email.) LinkedIn is just the email service sending a message that was initiated by a member who likely got your email from a business card, from their email contact list, etc.
Not sure if you can stop people from sending you invitations from LinkedIn so I would recommend that you set up in your email account to send any email that includes the words “LinkedIn” to go to your junk mail folder.
Anyone else have any ideas?
that Carl Doppler is only paying peanuts to his employees here in the Philippines. He completely reaps the profits while the poor employeers are compressed in very narrow and humid room.